As we discussed today, although many blame affirmative action’s racial preferences for their failure to get into their first choice college, the reality is far from that. Indeed, preferences based on athletics, donors, alumni connections, and geographical diversity (my husband always credits his Wisconsin upbringing for getting into Duke) are much more relevant than race. Here is an interesting article discussing these influences in university admissions.
16 Comments
Liz posted on October 22, 2012 at 10:42 pm
During the crazy college application process I remember the competition and the belief that if you were “racially diverse” then you were set and didn’t have to worry. After reading this article and seeing where many of my friends got in and actually went to school, I realize that yes, race is a factor, but it is one of many. I saw legacy kids, faculty students and athletes get accepted to schools that their peers with better academic records were rejected from. Affirmative Action when you look at it from a neutral stance, may seem like a racist way to evaluate students. In reality I believe there are also many other unfair ways that students are evaluated and that it may just be one fault of many in the college application process. And although it is a fault, it seems to be an important consideration to ensure diversity within the classroom.
Steph posted on October 24, 2012 at 3:38 pm
An interesting point to consider is the perspective of the minorities themselves. I wonder how the view of this case would change had a minority been arguing about unfair treatment. It’s interesting that an important opinion- that of Justice Thomas’s- is also that of a minority’s and is completely against affirmative action.
Tinna Zhang posted on October 24, 2012 at 8:15 pm
This is an interesting topic. Since I am an international student, I do have lots of “complaints” about the school admissions. This is a kind of ironic, but, anyway, it is unfair to admit students based on their races. As my understand, schools need to overall student’s ability to consider that whether this student should be admitted into the college, instead of races or colors. Now is 21th century. Not 16th or 17th anymore.
And what’s worse, lots of companies only provide job opportunities for U.S. citizens. This decision is even unfair. There are lots of excellent foreign students. Why they only serves authorities to U.S. students? haha, These are only some complaints, not big deal. To be total equal, American government should publish some policies about international students or different races:)
Justine posted on October 25, 2012 at 1:11 pm
Diversity is absolutely an important factor of education and I believe having diverse classrooms is good preparation for the “real world”. My only concern is how schools who attempt to have diverse classrooms define diversity. In my opinion having a variety of students of different races within the classroom is not as important as having a diverse collection of students from different economic backgrounds, from different geographic areas. The race of a person does not necessarily determine their way of thinking or learning; these elements to education are influenced far more by where a person comes from and what resources they have been able to take advantage of in their upbringing. This article made me question my own opinions of affirmative action, as I personally have never considered the effects of alumni, athletic and donor benefits. It’s not that I didn’t know or acknowledge such advantages in admissions but I disregarded them as potential threats to reasons why students of the majority would be rejected from their school of choice. Overall I believe diversity should be achieved with respect to many more factors other than just race.
Dora posted on October 26, 2012 at 10:30 am
This is actually a conversation we had in one of my classrooms in high school and a majority of students believed that affirmative action weighed more when being accepted into college. I had to explain to them that I did not get into BU because I’m a minority but because I actually met the requirements for getting into BU. Affirmative action is seen as the sole reason for minorities getting into good colleges and people overlook how hard some of us work to get in.
Laura Monti posted on October 27, 2012 at 11:03 am
I think the whole process is based on luck more than anything else. There are many pieces of non-academic influences that turn the college application process into a game of chance. Whether you are the daughter of alum, from the state, know someone in admissions, or a minority, that just adds to the fact you are lucky. I think that because the process is distorted and unfair to everyone at such a large level that it is easy to accept. It’s not just being a minority, there are a lot of other factors that weigh just as heavily and could be viewed as unfair. Unfortunately, a lot of colleges miss out on accepting people who truly deserve to be there but that’s something that they know.
Marina Mehrtens posted on October 28, 2012 at 1:55 pm
My biggest issue with using Affirmative action as an excuse for not being admitted to a school is that for the majority of these schools, the “majority” is their majority population as well. Take BU as an example (even though its a private school and doesn’t have to follow affirmative action.) One could argue that a “majority” student did not get in because affirmative action gives American minority students an unfair advantage. When you actually take a look at the domestic student demographics though–approx 45% are white-nonhispanic, 5% hispanic, 3% black, and 13% asian. I know we’re focused on the law but I feel like its so difficult to argue that you didn’t get in due to affirmative action when the actual minority populations are so low.
Tao posted on October 29, 2012 at 4:28 am
Things relates to racial issues are always very complicated. I am an international student, and I do have a lot to say about this point. I am not familiar with admission process, but I know the university will accept students based on their races. There is a kind of percentage there. The number of non-American students is limited. Moreover, the judgment for students is different. American students can receive scholarships based on their GPA scores, while non-American students who get 4 GPA score cannot receive any financial aid. Not to mention the different grading standards in SAT tests. If a student takes tests in Hong Kong, he might get 700 in Math part when he makes a mistake. Meanwhile, if he takes the same test in America, he can get 800 in Math part even if he make more than one mistakes. It is unfair to be strict to Chinese students by believing that they will certainly do better in mathematics in same tests.
Laura Hasenauer posted on October 29, 2012 at 11:05 pm
I found it interesting how the author of this article took a difference stance on the affirmative action issue by comparing the minority applicants to those applicants considered “schmucks.” I never really considered the significant amount of students that are accepted to colleges based on their connections, whether it be an alumni parent, a faculty member or their wealthy family. This is just another bias that is apparent in the college application process. I am from a white middle-class family, so I guess both bias apply against me: I am neither a minority, nor do I have any socioeconomic connections working in my favor. Is this fair? No, but I worked hard in high school to be accepted into good colleges based solely on my merit and I think this is what is most important.
Emily Theurer posted on October 30, 2012 at 8:02 pm
As Laura mentioned in the comment above, I feel that middle class students applying to schools are the students who have the fewest special advantages in the admission process. These are the students who have neither race nor class on their side. I was one of these students and therefore relied solely on my merit when being admitted to colleges. I have seen peers from high school get into elite colleges solely because their parents worked at the college. For me this never truly seemed fair. I believe that both race and class biases should be used only as a tipping point in the college admission process. If there are two students who are equally qualified to get into the school and the school can only accept one, than maybe the student whose father donates money should be taken over the other student. I am doubtful that the college admission process will ever truly be one hundred percent fair. However, in order to start injecting fairness into the admissions process, we should be targeting the way that both the privileged and the underrepresented are admitted into colleges.
Oliver Koester posted on October 31, 2012 at 7:01 pm
The argument regarding class – socioeconomic status – as a determinant in college admissions is certainly valid. I imagine it is discouraging for students who do their best but lack the financial means to gain an edge in admissions. admissions boards that discriminate on socioeconomic basis may however not be doing so directly, it just happens because the individual lacked the means to attend elite private schools or missed out on tutoring opportunities and as a result lost out on a better SAT score. This however is a reality that is not protected by law unlike admissions based on race or ethnicity.
Taking into account that there seems to be a correlation between socioeconomic status and ethnicity, the following excerpt from the article really puts it into perspective for anyone arguing taht minorities getting “extra points” towards addmission are taking up space unfairly – it just isnt so.
“The raw truth is that, given the limited places, huge over-subscription for top universities in particular, and relatively low application rates from minorities, affirmative action makes precious little difference to white students’ odds. The year Gratz was turned down, minorities comprised just 11% of the applicants. Even if all of them had been rejected, the percentage of white students accepted would have risen only from 25% to 30%.”
That said I feel that the idea of affirmative action in itself is racist because it draws out race as an issue – in a completely race neutral – racism free society – the issue wouldnt be on the table and perhaps we would focus more on socioeconomic class instead.
Steph posted on November 3, 2012 at 1:14 pm
This article was very interesting because it also brings into perspective all the other forms of how people can have an advantage in college admissions. I believe having a diverse classroom is crucial for an enhanced learning experience.
I believe diversity should consist of a variety of factors and not solely off the basis of race. For example I think individual circumstances such as the socio-economic background, geographical location is what enhances diversity.
Being a student at BU has really exposed me to such a variety of diverse backgrounds. I come from a suburb mainly consisting of Caucasians. When I compare my college experiences to that of friends who stayed in state and hangout with the same friends from high school, I can note clear differences. The fact that I have met such a wide assortment of diverse individuals has really prepared me for the real world, where not everyone thinks the same.
Diversity enhances learning experiences. When people bring their unique experiences and provide new ways of learning and perspectives, it takes analytical thinking to whole other level.
Kandyce Graber posted on November 5, 2012 at 10:35 pm
It’s funny that you would mention your husband’s Wisconsin background as the factor that got him admitted to Duke. I am from Wisconsin, and I joke that that’s the only reason why I got accepted to BU. I feel that I would have gotten in otherwise, but there are very few Wisconsin students at BU, so I’m sure BU likes to accept us Cheese-heads in order to create diversity. Another interesting fact is that there are 3 (I could be wrong, but I am 95% sure) sophomores in SMG from Wisconsin, and 2 of us are in the SMG Honors Program.
KP posted on November 6, 2012 at 9:30 am
I absolutely believe that diversity in classrooms is a great way to enhance learning. Actually it was on of the reasons why I wanted to study in the United States. However I am not sure how exactly to set the line correctly in order to admit the “right” number of minorities or international students. I do not think it is fair in general to give extra points in admission process.
Dorothy Cheam posted on November 8, 2012 at 1:19 pm
Diversity in classrooms certainly does promote a more varied and diverse learning as it encourages the exchange of different views from students with different cultural backgrounds. Being an international student, I am unsure of the admission process here in the US and I wonder if affirmative action does apply to admitting international students, but I feel that most universities try to diversity their students’ racial demographic through the use of affirmative action. It is in a way, advantageous to minority classes and helps to admit them into certain universities, especially public universities. However, I feel that it may disadvantage students from a middle-class background but have fulfilled all the academic requirements necessary to be admitted to a certain school. Therefore, I feel that the admission process should not heavily rely on using race as a determinant factor. Rather, I believe that a variety of factors such as socioeconomic status and most importantly meritocracy should be considered when admitting students into their universities.
Mohammed Ali Al Nowais posted on November 18, 2012 at 10:14 pm
I also have an international perspective on this issue. I leave aside the obvious problems that universities encounter by trying to serve their local / regional markets, and workign to build a reputation in the new global marketplace – it is unlikely that one intsitution can serve these different masters. I look at the outcomes for the institution – if a university is truly a “community of scholars”, as most universities advertise themselves, they must encourage a balance between pure academic qualification and this ‘community’. Too much of one makes for a potentially sterile community where only grades dictate membership, too much the other might encourage ‘anything goes, social over academic’ attitudes. It is a hard balance, but I am certain that despite its weaknesses diversity policies create true academic communities>